What to say?

[aj2234]

My boyfriend (21y..o) occasionally has difficulty maintaining arousal and ejaculating when we have sex. I pinned it down to him being on anti-depressant medication. He was on different tablets, then switched to the ones he is currently on, when the problem started. However, in April, he broke up with me, citing a need to sleep with other people, and suggesting that it was the cause of his sexual difficulties. This hurt my feelings quite a bit. The 'break up', however, only lasted about a day and we've been back together since. We do not have problems very often. However, when we do, it's quite difficult to discuss it with him. I attempt to ask him if it's the same issue (wanting to sleep with others), which he denies. However, he is often frustrated that the problem occurs without an explanation. When it does happen, I attempt to ask him questions so we can communicate and I can help us both understand what's happening. We have been dating for well over three years, and I've only yesterday been able to find out that he watches porn occasionally. This really doesn't concern me, but what does is that he's not comfortable discussing it with me. It's very difficult to ask him questions about masturbation, and sexual difficulties (although he has suggested that he does, occasionally, have a bit of trouble ejaculating by himself), and I cannot persuade him to go to the doctors about it. I don't believe he sees it as a big enough problem, as it's not persistent. I have a very high sex drive, and would really enjoy having more sex than we currently are. We had sex for the third time in a day yesterday, however, he stopped after I came, and said he 'wasn't very aroused' or into it. That made me feel terrible, because at the beginning, we both consented.

I don't like this situation and don't know how to proceed. He has other side effects from the medication (headaches in particular) that I think require a doctor's visit. I don't like the fact that he can't be honest with me, but I also don't want to push his boundaries. I don't really know how to proceed in this area. Like I've said, it doesn't happen too often (we can have sex once a day for a number of consecutive days without issue), but when it does, it's disheartening.

[Sam W]

Hi aj,

With the doctor end of things, at a certain point there's only so much you can do. You've made your concerns to him felt, now it's up to him to investigate further. If you're finding your desire for sex is higher than what he's comfortable with having, it might be time to switch to masturbation to help you relieve those urges.

It sounds like he's a little sensitive to talking about sexual stuff, but do you think he'd be open to a check-in discussion about where you both are in terms of what you want from your sex life as a couple? And, do you think he'd be open to doing a "yes, no, maybe so" list?

I also want to check, how are you feeling in this relationship otherwise? Is sex the one point of tension, or have you noticed others?

[aj2234]

Hi Sam.

I do masturbate very regularly, but I would still prefer to have more sex. He is quite sensitive about the topic. I'm not so sure if he'd be up for that, just because it is sensitive. It seems like I can only ask a few questions before he gets too uncomfortable. I've sort of mentioned that I'd like more and he fluctuates on whether he agrees. Sometimes, when he has no issue, it'll seem like he agrees, but other times, not so much. I suppose trying to work in more questions about expectations when I can would help. I might try and do it slowly.

There have been other points of tension. However, we've recently eliminated a cause of tension (staying with his parents too much), so emotionally, we've been doing much better and have been enjoying each other's company. There are other tensions here and there, though.

[Sam W]

I think trying to talk about expectations, boundaries, and needs is very sound. It can go a long way towards lessening misunderstandings or tensions.

If you're finding that there are tensions elsewhere in the relationship, then it might be good to first have a conversation about the overall health of your relationship. Sometimes, if there are issues going on in a relationship, they can bleed over into your sex life without it being obvious that that's what is happening.

[aj2234]

I'll slowly try to do that.

I suppose that could be the case, but this issue started when we were on holidays and pretty much worry-free, so I guess there might be multiple factors at play. Would it be worth pushing the idea of consulting a doctor about it if I manage to get him talking? To see if it's related to the anti-depressants?

[Sam W]

I would caution against continuing to push it, simply because you've let him know your concerns, and continuing to bring them up might cause him to dig in his heels (although, if you notice a drastic change, that might be something to mention).

[Heather]

I'd also suggest you try NOT asking him about this for a while (like, for a few months). He doesn't know the answer anyway, from the sounds of things, but these kinds of issues are most often psychological or interpersonal in origin (thus the doctor visit is probably not likely to be helpful anyway) and tend to only get worse with any kind of pressure.

Too, there are really just a couple kinds of sex that require an erection on his part: if you both want more sex together, are you being creative in exploring ways to be sexual together that work with how his body is and isn't responding?

[aj2234]

Thank you both for that. I guess I won't try and push his comfort zone for a while, especially if it doesn't happen again too often.

Heather, we are trying, but it often involves me attempting to pleasure him (e.g. oral), rather than both of us being recipients. But, again, that's something we're working towards changing. We tried the other night as well, where after sex (he did not ejaculate), he masturbated and I talked him through it. We weren't successful, though, and it led to a little bit of frustration on his part.

[Ashleah]

Just want to be clear, so can you explain what you mean when you say that y'all weren't successful? Do you mean he did not ejaculate?

[aj2234]

Yes, that's what I meant Ashleigh.

[Heather]

Terms like "success" are really problematic with sex, because what they do is make sex about product, not process; about having very specific aims, rather than having an experience. This kind of framework also often makes things seem like problems that don't have to be. For example, someone could have a perfectly enjoyable sexual life, as could their partner, without EVER ejaculating, because ejaculation is not something people need to experience pleasure and intimacy, even if they may enjoy it when it happens.

To give you another example, think about the difference between taking a walk because it's a nice day and you just want to get outside and move around in it versus running a 10K. The latter is about a very specific goal and meeting it: the former is just about having an experience. If I'm just taking a walk to walk, it is "successful" if I am able to do that (and, I suppose, if I can without, say, being mauled by a bear or hit by a car), because it's just about the experience and the process of the experience, not a goal like walking a certain distance or at a certain speed. That's more the way to come to sex if what you're after is a sexual life where you're more likely to enjoy yourself, and where it's more likely to relieve stress than create it.

So, I'd encourage you both to talk about this way of seeing and going about things, and to see if you can't start switching to a pleasure-based model, where your aims are simply to enjoy yourselves and explore yourselves, rather than either of you trying to "make" certain things happen like orgasm or ejaculation. Not only are those things more likely to happen if you make that switch, it will matter a whole lot less when they don't, and they won't sometimes, because that's just how mercurial bodies can be.

(I do want to make sure you both know that not ejaculating sometimes isn't a signal of a problem: that's something that happens sometimes for everyone, just like not getting or keeping erection -- whether we're talking penises or we're talking clitorises -- or not self-lubricating to the level needed for friction-based activities to feel good is.)

Am I also getting it right that a lot of sex is centered on HIS body? You say (if I have this right) that oral sex is only something you do with his penis (rather than it also happening with his mouth and your genitals), and so much of what you've talked about here also has to do with his penis and what it's doing. If I do have it right that what you two are doing sexually isn't just very limited, but is centered around not just his body, but only one small fraction of it (his penis), then changing that pattern should also make a big difference. Especially for you, since chances are that when it comes to your sexual satisfaction, him ejaculating is not at all likely to be all you need to feel satisfied with and in your sex life.

[aj2234]

Hi Heather. I absolutely understand what you mean about product vs process. I just wanted to say in regards to that, while other times we have focused on the fact that we've both had a nice time (without him ejaculating), in this particular instance, we were both agreed in that the aim was attempting to make him ejaculate, as he felt as though he wanted to this time but was having difficulty. Other times, though, admittedly, we do focus too much on outcome, rather than enjoyment through (I'm happy to report we do have enjoyment and intimacy throughout despite our other focus, though).

That's fair enough if it's not classified as a problem. I only view it that way because of the reasons he provided when he broke up with me, and because I had thought anti-depressants may be a factor.

A lot of it is focused on him, yes. I don't necessarily mind this all the time, as, at times, he does make an effort to 'include' me in it (touching, talking etc.) which I am satisfied with. Other times, not so much. We have explored other areas of the body, but while I am more receptive to things other than penetration/oral sex, he doesn't receive as much stimulation or pleasure from similar things, and doesn't really talk about what he enjoys other than things related to his penis.

[Heather]

So, it sounds like you need to ask him about that and start having some talks about that. It might also be helpful for both of you to fill out one of these: Yes, No, Maybe So: A Sexual Inventory Stocklist. Then you can share each of yours together to help facilitate these conversations.

For sure, SSRIs can make ejaculation more difficult or make it take longer, as they can with orgasm. Depression, by itself, also can have those impacts. It's personal, but back in the 90's, when the SSRIs out there were all super heavy-duty, I had a lover who, when we first started hooking up, just said, "Hey, just so you know, no need to ever even think about keeping going (with something like intercourse) for my sake when it comes to me getting off, because it often just takes way too long or doesn't happen." And he had a really mellow, accepting attitude about it, which clearly benefitted him, but also made it super-easy and no-big on me as a partner and anyone else he brought that to the table that way with, which I suspect was probably anyone else. I put that here just as an example that people can really be quite chill about this when that's going on -- whether the reason is depression, a medication for depression, or anything else -- and it doesn't have to be any kind of barrier to having great sexual lives or experiences. That person I was with was incredibly fun in bed and became a lifelong friend.

I do need to say, though, that trying to "make" someone ejaculate really is folly. We can't do that, for one, as it's an involuntary bodily response, meaning no one can "make" themselves do it, and someone who isn't even living in their body sure can't. But trying to go at something like that, again, is one of the surest ways to assure it will NOT happen, and that a sexual experience also won't likely be enjoyable. Going at sex with a goal like that just usually stands counter to enjoying sex as an experience.

[aj2234]

Thank you very much for that Heather. I absolutely love the list, but I don't know if something so formal and straightforward would be well received. But, I think I'll perhaps try and integrate part of it into our love life, like, 'hey would you find x pleasurable?', 'do you like it when I do y?', in a more casual sense. I think that'd be comfortable for both of us.

Sometimes he is as your partner sounds - happy to just have fun, and enjoy something between us. But the times where he's disappointed in himself or the situation are not as positive. I think if I/we behaved a bit more optimistically when it happens again, it'll be better for both of us.

[Heather]

Whatever feels like the right way for you to use it, it's all good!

Is the doctor prescribing his antidepressants also a therapist? If not, can he ask that doctor for a referral? I ask because managing depression is never easy, and having someone qualified to talk to about all its challenges -- it may or may not be that not ejaculating is related to his depression or his meds, but it may be that it's hitting him so hard because he's depressed -- can really make a big difference.

You Aussies have a great mental health organization -- http://headspace.org.au/ -- if he wants to look into what they have to offer, too.

[aj2234]

He's not a therapist, no. Just a general practitioner. My boyfriend actually went to a psychologist last year, took a small break and then found his psychologist had moved clinics. He only wants to see the same psychologist because he's already opened up to her, even though I've attempted to point out that they might need to start from scratch anyway because of the now long gap between consultations, as well as the new clinic. I'm not quite sure how he feels about it now because I haven't asked in recent months. I'm very very proud that we have good mental health services here. It's just crucial.

[Heather]

I understand. Is that -- getting back to seeing his previous therapist -- something he's actively pursuing?

[aj2234]

Sorry for not responding sooner - I responded in my head! No, it's not. Since he found out his therapist moved in February, he took a little time to find out where she had moved to, and also got a referral to another psychologist, but hasn't pursued either.

[Sam W]

Then that might be something to check in with him about. As in, "hey, I remember you found a new psychologist, have you gotten a chance to see them yet?" Like I said before, you can't be the one to force him to go see someone, but letting him know that you care about him and his mental health might give him a little nudge.

[aj2234]

Funnily enough I did ask yesterday. He said whenever something that happened (a bad, sad, or embarrassing experience) pops into his mind during sex, he loses interest or motivation I guess. I said if he's on anti-depressants and still experiencing this, plus he felt the psychologist helped when he went, then maybe psychology would be a good option again. He was very indifferent and didn't seem to want to do it right now which surprises me given the issues we're having (emotional not just sexual). While in the end it's his choice, it does frustrate me a lot that it feels like he isn't doing anything. If he isn't talking to me, his family, or a psychologist then I don't understand what else we can do. I think part of this might be me misunderstanding what depression is, but frustrating none the less.

[Eddie C]

Hello there, aj. I hope it's okay that I jump in a little bit.

I hear you how frustrating it can be to feel like there could be a lot to be done and still to not do anything. But, sometimes -- as frustrating as it sounds -- people need time and space to be/feel crappy, you know? Sometimes being in a crappy place for a while helps people to want to move on. It may not be what we want or would like but, people have different paces and sometimes their paces are way, way slower than ours.

I know that this doesn't help much, but I just wanted to let you know that someone read your post and that you are not alone in this.

[aj2234]

Thank you very much for that Edith. What you're saying does seem to be the case. It is frustrating to have to sit and not know what to say or do or how to help. But I was talking to him yesterday when he was anxious and asked him why he was and he said he didn't know, and that he didn't need me to do anything. So I definitely think you're right and I need to take a bit of a backseat and try to understand and be a little more patient.

[Heather]

I have a book to suggest to you that I think may be useful (I know when I have had partners who suffer from depression, it has been, even as someone very experienced and educated around this): that's "How You Can Survive When They're Depressed : Living and Coping With Depression Fallout," by Anne Sheffield. It's pretty easy to find, and may even be available through your local library.

You may also find the website for one of AU's fantastic mental health services here helpful to you, both per education, but also in terms of seeking support and help for yourself, whether we're talking about things like pregnancy anxiety or emotional support when you are with a partner who has mental illness: http://headspace.org.au/